Like other Socratic-style dialogs, there was a Fool. He referred to the mystical "downtime", the mythical "RL" universe, and openly failed to grasp the finer points of the conversation, before withdrawing entirely from it. His name has been changed to "Socratic Fool."
On Biology:
E2401 > We would hav found another way, it only came to this because of initial exploitation of non renewable resources
KnyteStorm Hawk > but it is renewable they breed faster then we can cut em down.
pockitz > if we don't they will just keep breeding
On Physics:
Proteles cristata > Do they really? All we know is that every day some more appear. We do not know where they come from. There is only a finite amount of matter in the universe. Therefore the rocks are exhaustible.
KnyteStorm Hawk > They are even better than trees, takes years for trees to regrow, the roids only take a few days
Socratic Fool > ok.... trying to figure that one out
Proteles cristata > This refers to the law of Conservation of Energy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy) which states that energy (and by implecation matter) can not be created or destroyed.
KnyteStorm Hawk > then you have nothing too fear from us mining
Socratic Fool > i meant why there was a panther scooping up can in a belt
KnyteStorm Hawk > Even better Fleet tempest mining
Socratic Fool > haha Hulkageddon does weird things to people
E2401 > The transforming from rocks to ore to items is an exothermic process, thus releasing energy from the environment and increasing the temperature of New Eden. This removes energy from the matter system thus reducing the number of rocks.
KnyteStorm Hawk > all of which returns through the natural processes reforming even more roids.
KnyteStorm Hawk > and the cycle continues
Socratic Fool> or... every downtime, the rocks reappear
Socratic Fool> I like that explanation better
Proteles cristata > how can an increasing temperature of New Eden create more rocks? All that does is remove energy from easy availability.
Socratic Fool > if this were RL, when the rocks were gone, they'd be gone for good
Proteles cristata > It is like mining a geothermal hotspring for power, and putting the fluid back into the field. It extends that life of the field but the field is still finite
KnyteStorm Hawk > the energy released causes coalescence of dust particles which bond as they are heated and then the extreme colds of deep space forges the hot gasses into solid rocks
Proteles cristata > The temperature required to form rock is much higher than can be explained by thermal leakage from inductial processes. What you say has some base of truth but the quantities required to make the rocks is far too high.
KnyteStorm Hawk > Yet it occurs, so maybe there is something missing in the math.
KnyteStorm Hawk > A natural variable that you have yet to identify or explain.
On Asteroid Ethics:
Mechanoid Kryten > i find it quite a pleasure to listen in on this erudite conversation. i just mined without asking all these ... deeper questions. thank you!
Mechanoid Kryten > go on! don't let me stop you!
KnyteStorm Hawk > Ohh Have faith it will continue..
Proteles cristata > What you stipulate seems to close to be a perpetual motion machine. It can not work. It is like the ozone hole over the south pole. Only by stopping CFC use was the problem solved (and only then by a short margin).
pockitz > so why do these rocks group up in the same spot everyday
pockitz > some sort of group meeting....
pockitz > there plotting something
reddukez > riveting
KnyteStorm Hawk > Yep they are plotting with their Angel Allies. You notice the Angels always show up in the Roid fields to get their latest orders from the roids.
pockitz > I guess miners are like 'roid police
Mechanoid Kryten > *raises hand* pardon me professor, but why did they chose to pair up with Serpentis in Gallente space then?
KnyteStorm Hawk > As for the perpetual motion, the universes are vast and constantly in motion. Different roids ever notice they have different breeds of rocks.
E2401 > I notice you haven't tried to deny the roids are intact alive, therefore, mining is murder.
KnyteStorm Hawk > Angels are alive too and you kill them.
pockitz > they have the most influence in that area to help them in there cause
E2401 > Angels are murdering criminals, like miners
KnyteStorm Hawk > Perhaps the Roids are murdering criminals thus why concord does not react
KnyteStorm Hawk > Perhaps Concord is hiding something from everyone so they dont have to pay bounties on the roids
On Asteroid Military Strategy
Mechanoid Kryten > well I do believe I should get a kill mail for clearing out an entire system of rocks! *
pockitz > agreed
E2401 > have you ever witnessed a roid attack? This is all just paranoia, the roids are a peaceful species
Mechanoid Kryten > I heard Merxocit shoots quite hard.
KnyteStorm Hawk > Yes I have seen several ships destroyed by roids.
Mechanoid Kryten > and the veldspar always seem to pull my ship toward then even when I have no intention of mining them.
KnyteStorm Hawk > yes those tractor beams in the veldspar
Proteles cristata > Only in the same way that an animal writes in pain as it is killed slowly.
KnyteStorm Hawk > Ohh no the roids I saw were blasting out waves of energy at everying nearby
KnyteStorm Hawk > worse then the dumb smartbombs
KnyteStorm Hawk > And all we were doing was waking up the poor folks sleeping near the roids
E2401 > the miners are the aggressors, remember who fired first
KnyteStorm Hawk > The rocks
KnyteStorm Hawk > in fact a while back there had been an empire station devestated by a rock..
Mechanoid Kryten > well sometimes when I been mining 35 hours in a row I start to think the rocks are singing to me.....
KnyteStorm Hawk > Ahh their sirens song trying to lure you deeper in
pockitz > they killed the Dinosaurs dont underestmate them
On Asteroid Politics
E2401 > then why doesn't concord intervene? they protect pilots, if the roids were the aggressors surely they would intervene?
KnyteStorm Hawk > Maybe Concord is hiding something and if they started to intervene one way or another it might come out.
E2401 > conspiracy theorys, no one wants to admit this modern day genocide
Mechanoid Kryten > there has to be some conspiracy -- why would all the ABC ores avoid Concord controlled space? perhaps they sacrificed their lesser brothers and sisters to save themselves
E2401 > any population is bound to have a criminal element, let us not judge all roids by the actions of a few
Mechanoid Kryten > a Gneiss once told me that Veldspar was framed.
KnyteStorm Hawk > And look at the 4 lost civilizations, all of their areas and bases look to have been destroyed by roids
KnyteStorm Hawk > Maybe Concord know the Roids are behind it all and don't want it getting out.
KnyteStorm Hawk > Maybe the Roids are the true master behind all the Pirates, even the wormhole sleeper drones appear to be working for them.
E2401 > again can can be attributed to a small criminal fraternity, we cannot judge all roids by this standard
Proteles cristata > That would be like judging the whole of Columbia by the actions of the Drug Cartels.
Mechanoid Kryten > I admit I've been so taken by individual rocks sometimes that I didn't mine them. i mined all around them but left them alone. then I took pictures of them and gave them names.**
Mechanoid Kryten > that does imply a form of sentience ... telepathy maybe
Mechanoid Kryten > until someone falls entirely under their control and protects them. like the weak-willed angels we find in the belts
On Asteroid Taxonomy
KnyteStorm Hawk > But how are we innocent miners to know which are the good and which are the bad, Concord obviously doesn't want to tell us. They ignore the situation entirely
Mechanoid Kryten > scordite looks especially shifty to me.
KnyteStorm Hawk > and Hemo..
Mechanoid Kryten > and i think the rich plagioclase is in charge of offering Concord bribes.
Mechanoid Kryten > Wait that made no sense. See they messing with my mind already.
KnyteStorm Hawk > And Dense veldspar, just needs reverted back to the gene pool ala Darwin.
Mechanoid Kryten > true, that.
On Asteroid Cognitive Ethnology
E2401 > U dont expect to share a common lanquage do you?
Mechanoid Kryten > you shoot it and it just sits there. can't be too smart if it does that.
Mechanoid Kryten > I'm a miner and even I don't do that....
Mechanoid Kryten > at least I move slowy out of the way
E2401 > Do you really expect them to speak English, and why should they, they have a different culture, who's to say one is better than the other. rocks have been around alot longer than us
KnyteStorm Hawk > And have killed more of us then we have of them. How many planets have they ravaged raining down shards, wiping out almost all life.
Mechanoid Kryten > and like Fedo infestations on Minmatar ships -- they will certainly be here after we are all gone. does not mean anything.
On Asteroid safety: Asteroids greater menace than Titans?
E2401 > accedents are inevitable, ttans have caused similar damage, just read http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/The_Titans_(Chronicle)
KnyteStorm Hawk > And even the great movement to protect the roids is slipping once arguing they were all innocent and now stepping back to say only an isolated few are responsible..
KnyteStorm Hawk > and thus Titans are also not allowed in most of the civilized space
E2401 > but it would be a serious understatement to describe the problems caused by pilots as being the actions of a minority
E2401 > with 17:1 asteroids to pilots we can be glad of so few 'bad eggs'
On Asteroid Technology
Mechanoid Kryten > i was just evaluated for a possible mining op involving thrashers mining hulks with bullets. I certainly can sympathize with the process (that roids go through). but like me they have pod-clones somewhere or equivalent and return.***
E2401 > but the roids peaceful culture has not necessitated the creation of such technology
KnyteStorm Hawk > perhaps that is how they are able to repopulate the same areas so fast and we gained it from their examples
Mechanoid Kryten > while that is certainly possible, I prefer the physical "perpetual motion machine" explanation that was proposed earlier. however ... if we are researching theories.....
Asteroids and their place in the larger Cosmos
Mechanoid Kryten > does anyone know why there are no Jovians around anymore?
KnyteStorm Hawk > ahh they are hiding from the roids
Mechanoid Kryten > I heard from that same Gneiss that the Omber had something to do with it.
KnyteStorm Hawk > And the Talokans, Sleepers, and 2 others all wiped out
Mechanoid Kryten > I don't mine omber. it scares me. bad, bad rock. bad to the core!
E2401 > but they released clone technology didn't they? that would make them the roids allies
Mechanoid Kryten > did they release it, or was it taken from them?
Mechanoid Kryten > perhaps as a last gasp of a dying species trying to survive their onslaught!
Mechanoid Kryten >* takes another drink of whiskey*
KnyteStorm Hawk > maybe they stole it from the roids along with the other 4 that's why the other 4 were wiped out and they retreated into hiding
KnyteStorm Hawk > The Roids Destroyed the Sleeper race then took control of their remaining drones in the wormholes
E2401 > if the roidds have such technology why dont the use it against us? this is just more proof of their peaceful intentions
E2401 > if they could do such damage, whats stopping them finishing the job but thier own morals?
Mechanoid Kryten > ah but they do. even i have felt the pull of their siren song ! perhaps our pod technology shields us.
KnyteStorm Hawk > Maybe they do use it, in controlling the pirates
Mechanoid Kryten > and that of course. and of course they have a cease-fire with CONCORD
Mechanoid Kryten > CONCORDdoes not protect them but does not mine them either.
Mechanoid Kryten > now tell me -- have you ever seen a CONCORD mining barge mining? no? well.. then!
KnyteStorm Hawk > Concord must have brokered some kind of deal to stay neutral with them
Mechanoid Kryten > *takes another drink.*
E2401 > But with such technology they could wipe out all other races. They only maintain peace because they want to. Just because they don't fire back you feel you can attack them
KnyteStorm Hawk > maybe they have some greater plan their superiors are hatching deep in the lawless space..
Mechanoid Kryten > That's more likely yet. The lowly ones we have here are the outcasts of their society
Mechanoid Kryten > perhaps they are like the baby fish eaten by it's own mother -- brutal and un-intelligent
Mechanoid Kryten > * takes another drink and passes out cold for the night *
Conclusion?
E2401 > but any civilization that has existed for so long by definition must be stable. we are the intruders
KnyteStorm Hawk > or the war with the ancient races left them too weakened here to mount the same offensive so they are trying to lure us into thinking they are peaceful, just look around some systems never mined but devoid or roids.. maybe from the war with the ancient
E2401 > but IF that were true then only by maintaining the peace could we survive, why anger them. I don't believe it, people demonize that which they don't understand
E2401 > It is fear of the unknown
KnyteStorm Hawk > or maybe our only chance is to keep them pushed back so they never get a chance to reclaim those systems they lost to the ancients
E2401 > we once again arrived at conspiracy theory's. what proof is there of anything but there peaceful intentions?
KnyteStorm Hawk > The lost ancient civilizations, the emergence of wormholes controlled by Roids and their sleeper drones..
KnyteStorm Hawk > Those first explorers of these sudden wormholes were not miners, just peaceful folks flying around and many of them were ruthlessly attacked by both roids and sleepers.
E2401 > we recycling our arguments, lets agree to disagree. hope to do this again sometime
KnyteStorm Hawk > of course
Proteles cristata > For those who missed some of this debate, a full transcript will be posted on our website http://newedencs.blogspot.com/
* Not my idea. Another miner had it first.
** All true! Veldspar Dumpty, a Veldspar Named-after-former-corp-member-I-don't-like-anymore-so-I-can't-look-at-it-anymore, Veldspar Sylvester (whom you see as your background image here), and a Gneiss named DoughNutMan
*** I noticed the eco-terrorists removed evidence of their aggressive acts from their transcript! Shame shame!
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